quote:Originally posted by bonnee:

I hope you don't mind me commenting Tony, but I find the above remarks particularly interesting. Its been nice of everyone to not mention me by name, by the way, particularly since my 'troll' status is pretty much a given.

Back to the main point though - and that is the notion of a troll who trespasses upon friendly terrain just to antagonise people, and so, trangresses accepted codes of designated conduct.

In retrospect, I'm convinced that my initial two posts regarding Farscape and 'What's that Smell' in the Lexx forum would have been viewed as less antagonistic if I had posted them in the Sci Fi Angst forum. They might have been more postively discussed and even welcomed there. I find this very interesting, if only because it underlines the notion of a forum as a territory - and I've felt (rightly or wrongly) that I've encouraged a territorial dispute. In fact, my own grievance is that I've felt that certain people had been policing a border , and was often reminded of Gandalf in Lord of the Rings screaming 'You shall not pass!!" The lexx.com thing was an objection to what I perceived to be an attempt to expand the borders elsewhere , a situation inflammed by behaviour that does not just include my own.

I'm not going to defend my behaviour though or adversely comment upon anyone else's (what's the point, the borders of dis/agreement will remain mapped out as exactly as they were to begin with, and will only cross everyone accordingly.)

I've sinced looked up the meaning of troll, and can see why some of my posts could be interpreted as such. The last thing I wanted was to make SG intractable and inhospitable for others, and I APOLOGISE FOR ANY OFFENSE they tended to engender. I don't intend to post too often anymore. Note that I didn't come back after a good think, though. I only came back to defend Jen against the thought that she might have been me.

I do think , though, that the notion of a forum as a border is not something that I've encountered elsewhere. I've been trying to understand it, and can only think that the nature of sci fi enthusiasms tend to dis/allow territorial crossings and disputes. Given the expansive ground covered by Sad Geezer, this has revealed itself to be not so much a problem of demarcating borders, but of encouraging the perception that everyone should know their own place. As if there is a time and place for everything. As far as I am concerned, though, cartography in the for(u)m of a space-time continuum is the very antithesis of science fiction, even if it appears to be the province of the sci fi fan. The last thing I would expect is provincial attitides from sci fi fans - I thought it was more provisional. (read the definitions of sci fi I posted elsewhere).

By provincial I don't mean narrow minded but fenced in or partioned off according to sensibility or custom - one exhibiting the 'manners' of certain inhabitants or locals within a cordoned off area. And by manners I don't mean to just imply the question of good or bad behaviour, but mannered in the sense of indicating a person's habitual bearing (which simultaneously implies something good and bad ). Please note that this is not an attempt to antagonise anyone - more a lament at failing to recognise everyone's 'place', including my own.

Sorry everyone.

And as Tony is fond of saying - cheers!!

The Cheers Theme

Making your way in the world today
Takes everything you've got;
Taking a break from all your worries
Sure would help a lot.
Wouldn't you like to get away?
All those night when you've got no lights,
The check is in the mail;
And your little angel
Hung the cat up by it's tail;
And your third fiance didn't show;

Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
You want to be where you can see,
Our troubles are all the same;
You want to be where everybody knows your name.

Roll out of bed, Mr. Coffee's dead;
The morning's looking bright;
And your shrink ran off to Europe,
And didn't even write;
And your husband wants to be a girl;

Be glad there's one place in the world
Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
You want to go where people know,
People are all the same;
You want to go where everybody knows your name.

Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
(fade out)

[ 21-03-2002: Message edited by: bonnee ]

Bonnee, just wanted you to know the gripe I had about you had nothing to do with trying to get you to conform in anyway, we all say what we feel here, and there is never a time or a place for most things said.
At the end of the day, an attack is just that, and if someone who comes along and says I hate this programme and feel this one is better, then it's only human nature for those who like it to defend it.
There's nothing to be gained from reiterating that view, we call ourselves fans because for the most part we support something.
There are going to be boundaries, whether you or I think there shouldn't be, for instance, what's to be gained from telling say a young kid that their programmes are childish, it's who they are, you might get some personal satisfaction from it, but it leaves the kid bewildered as to why you chose to say that in the first place, as well as leaving them upset when you attack their personal freedom to choose what they like.
So it's just a case of recognising other peoples likes and not treating them with disrespect.
Of course the little spats that fans have will always happen, but inviting and encouraging people to have a discussion as to why Lexx is better than something else will always lead to problems, someone is always out to get the upper hand and always results in personal and unfriendly attacks, the heat of the moment gets the better of someone and they end up feeling bad about themselves for posting in an offensive manner, it's simply not worth the anguish that can be caused.
This what trolls set out to do, they look for opportunities to create such a situation, so that they can sit back and laugh as others fight amongst themselves, and then turn to their friends and say 'I caused all this' and they think it's cool.
This isn't just restricted to Sci-fi fans, it's a case of walls being put up so as to protect them from outsiders who would have fun at their expense.
Football fans forums are notorious for trolls, but on the whole it's the nature of their passion, they like to annoy and ridicule the opposition, but it never get's them anywhere.
It has never been anyone's intention to preclude an individual or police a zone, nobody is going to obstruct someone elses opinion, but if anyone posts remarks that essentially question personal tastes then you can't expect anything less than others bemoaning your actions, and that goes for the whole board, not just Lexx.
And yes of course territories exist, we all don't share the same likes, so that's bound to happen, but these territories are not warning posts or tell you that you are trespassing, they are formed by like minded people and you simply can't describe it as an intentional act.
I feel simply that you stated your case too many times, to the point where it did get annoying, it was said that you didn't like Lexx, although that was not true, your posts could not be shared with people who like Lexx for whatever it does.
Squishy

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
If I said to you how I felt about something that is dear to me or I felt strongly about, and you replied 'Bollocks' then I most certainly would take offence to that.

No I wasn't doing that. Please don't exaggerate. Somebody posted a silly (in my opinion) topic in requesting that 'people should stop bickering and that all the flaming should cease'.

It was a very silly thing to do. This is not an aggressive board and people aren't flamed and bickered with as much as the original post indicated.

I disagree quite sharply with MOST of what the super_joe said because it either stated that the SadBOARD was about to be overrun with flamers or was a misplaced apology (should have been to Ana in the Andromeda forums).

It isn't!!!! If you think it is then you are mistaken! It may be that some people get through the net and manage to post the odd flame that moderators don't pick up on, but that is very rare.

I am very happy with ALL the contributions that people make. If they break what seems like the only rule, they will be edited or banned. No apologies are necessary, they don't need to place heart-rending posts on the board, they just need to make sure that they don't do it again (otherwise they will be edited again or banned).

As the founder of SadBOARD and moderator of this forum I found the topic heading silly and much of the message patronising. But it's just my opinion.

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
My post and the others reflect praise for the SadBOARD, feeling pride for being part of a culture that is unlike any other, your response essentially shot us down in flames.

And I am very pleased that people feel the way they do about the board. But again, I was replying to the comment by super_joe.

If you or anyone else agrees with the heading and the motivation behind the post, then I would question your reasons for doing so.

It maybe that my impression of the Board is wrong. Maybe you think that moderators SHOULD be harsher on posters.

Personally I don't think that way and I will happily argue the point with anyone who does.

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
Re: DAMMIT ALL OF YOU, THIS IS A PEACEFULL BOARD, people who flame (make personal attacks are edited and or banned).

*No one is suggesting otherwise, we are stating the main point of interest, which appeals to us about this board.

Yes they were - Super_joe shouted his topic "DAMMIT ALL OF YOU. GIVE PEASE A CHANCE!"

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
quote:
*Not at all, view it as an indirect question, I have no idea how much time you spend on your own site, and some people who have sites don't have the time to monitor how it is being run.

No, I think I prefer to view it as it was written.

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
*Not at all, it's common sense to know what can be deemed offensive, if the post isn't littered with detrimental remarks it won't be viewed as insulting.

I completely disagree! And I've already explained why. You are on very dodgy ground with such comments and you yourself have littered the above post with detrimental remarks. (The seriousness of the remarks is determined by the person you are making the remarks to). It's easily done! I do it all the time!

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
*It comes down to actually discussing the board itself, the posts were in essence to show solidarity in the way we feel about this site, most of us look upon it as being more than just a place topics about Sci-fi, it's a place where you make friends who like the same things.

And again, I wasn't arguing about the posts, I was arguing about the topic heading.

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
*.... but Super Joe has the honesty and integrity to admit he was wrong, we forget it and move on.

I'm not convinced it was an apology! If it was, then why did he post such a title!? Why not say something like, "I'm sorry, Ana." or some other similar sentiment. Why start it off with shouting for all of us to stop fighting and be nice to each other?

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
To say it's 'nuts' is effectively discouraging any attempts to make observations, whether positive or negative about the site, it almost sounds like you are simply not interested on what people think of the board, just think of it as a discussion of how some members feel.

I do! And I think that Super_joe's original post was 'nuts'. I still do, and I also feel that I have just as much right to say so as you and others think it is right to agree with him.

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
You mention censorship, well I would prefer that rather than having our views put down by describing it as nuts.

That's nuts! If someone tells me that everyone on SadBOARD is bickering and to give peace a chance'. I think it is perfectly justified to tell them that their comment is nuts.

I appreciate that as the webmaster for this site it could be seen that I have a responsibility to be a little more reserved and less inflammatory. But then again, this is the angst forum

quote:Originally posted by Squishy:
You may notice that many of us (including mods) our quick to jump on any new member who will post something offensive or are acting impolitely, but it is done in a friendly and polite way, thus hoping that we can keep the general feeling of a friendly place here.

And that's my point. I didn't agree with super-joe's post, I didn't think it was the correct way to apologise and didn't fully appreciate his sentiments. Initially I considered it a trollish thing to do for the following reasons:

• The heading was antagonistic and inaccurate - There are no flames going on and no reasons for us to 'Give Peace a Chance'. The moderators do a good enough job in keeping the posts at the right level
• Any intended apology was inappropriate - that should have been directed to Ana.
  
• "It seems that, far from being a place where sci-fi fans can express their thoughts and opinions, they are instead turning into bloody freakin' war zones!" - is complete rubbish (and nuts!). Nowhere is there a warzone on SadBOARD and I resent the 'statement' that there is. Even the bloody Angst forum is polite and reserved!
• null

To me, the whole premise for the post was trollish. It could be construed at best as strange and at worst antagonistic. I tried to explain in as polite a way as possible why, but unfortunately I didn't get the point across correctly. I hope this explains what I meant in a clearer way.

quote:
Also, I really don't want to encourage anything cliquey. Everyone is welcome, no matter what opinions they have.

Bonnee, I'm worried that you feel the need to apologize for your posts and that you are perhaps a little too worried that you may offend. Your opinions are valued and encouraged (unless of course they are used to intentionally upset individuals, which I'm sure they wouldn't be).

I appreciate the benefit of the doubt Sad, but - encouraged or not - there is a distinct clique within certain forums, and my posts were (and will remain) construed as acts of tresspass. To some extent, it felt more like a possee intent on rounding an apparent newbie/troll up and beating them into submission.

Some of my posts encouraged a misreading and flame war, and I have no one to blame but myself. Basically, I didn't know what I was stepping into until I stepped into it. But as I've indicated both privately and publicly, some of your visitors are more inclined to 'get the message' earlier than others, and have indicated a tendency to allow themselves to be beaten into submission if that's what's required to stay 'on board'. Others seem disinclined to post at all because it appears as if some posters might be "looking over their shoulders".

Tony, I'm not sure if I need to remind you of the context prior to my public venting of spleen and subsequent shouting down. but for the record: The only reason you know me was because of a mutual love for Lexx. I postively reviewed your site for an e-zine I was writing for a while ago, and might have even pointed sci fi fans here as a result (prior to the dot com bust, the e-ezine had millions of subscribers). There was even talk of me writing reviews for you at one time to help facilitate the site's content. I kept you informed (privately) of my correspondence between Salter Street, and emailed you a series of odd exchanges indicating their reluctance to commit themselves to air dates outside NTC zones. I immediately informed you of Salter Street's subsequent (and surprising) email to me regarding confirmed air dates outside the USA. I excitedly drew your attention to the first season 4 review on the Net, although you already knew about it. I posted a thread in the episodes section once the series premiered downunder to excitedly chronicle my thoughts, only to find myself increasingly taken aback by the quality and the tone. Much to my shock, I found myself preferring Farscape to Lexx, and posted a thread that wanted to encourage seeing each show through one another's lens in order to make sense of a mental turn of events. I was immediately pounced upon as a troll. A turning point for me was the suspicion that the post got deleted by the moderators because of its apparent inflammatory nature, although you have indicated that it was unintentional and encouraged further discussion. Trouble is, I also appeared to be banned so could not discuss anything even if I wanted to. Your personal intervention appeared to result in the lifting of 'the ban', although you've insisted that it was merely a software problem requiring self correction.

I took your own posts regarding season 4 as an indication that the show had been misconceived or ill thought out, and tried to encourage discussion in what I assumed to be an open forum (no one seemed to think you were a troll). Instead, I encountered what appeared to be border crossings in more ways than one, and allowed myself to get cross as a result. (By that stage, I had decided to write my first television article for a film journal on Lexx and Farscape to encourage a broader and more appreciative audience, and found myself increasingly needing a place to vent some spleen to remain committed to the idea). Due to the resulting flame wars, I thought I had encouraged SG to become an inhospitable place for others - a situation compounded by my own concern that a lot of the hostility had spilt onto you for allowing a troll to 'pass' and remain in everyone's midst. I privately asked you to publicly ban my ISP in order to save face and enact damage control. You politely told me to kiss my ass, and said that I had just as much right to be here as anyone else. Although I had no intention of returning, I found myself having to defend someone else against the possibility that they might have been me. Although I have posted since, my troll status appears to have remained intact and non negotiable. Although I am very hurt and quite incredulous, I must acknowledge my own role in allowing things to get out of control. A self imposed ban would therefore be best for all concerned. There are not enough stars in the universe to count how I've become sorry in more ways than one.

[ 22-03-2002: Message edited by: bonnee ]

God, I just *love* revisionist history.

--Aleck

I can't say that I agree entirely with you on this matter, but most of what you have said is fair comment.
I'm not here to defend Super Joe or anyone else for that matter.
The only point I had to make was that this board can be susceptible to Trolls because of it's nature, that problem had been highlighted recently.
That doesn't mean to say that a problem exists as I know it doesn't, only that it would be a shame if this board ended up being that way.
Yeah, it might be nuts to say it, because there isn't a problem here, but I think we were really discussing previous experiences on other sites and how a troll would have a field day here.
A would be troll did appear recently, and it upset a few people, and for mind the whole point was that these things can destroy a sites reputation, it's easy too see this site has a good reputation, and the remarks were to both compliment that but also to acknowledge that it's troll free and devoid of personal attacks.
So what started as (excluding Super Joes post) as a comment of how good this place can be and the reason why that is so has resulted in both of us needlessly explaining each others posts.
I get your point, but equally you should get mine, but it's not that big a deal.
Surely you can see why your site is liked so much, and why a few of us our protective of it, it's a place where we can go to get away from all the other bollocks that goes on within cyberspace.
Now either your the type of person that feels embarressed when receiving a compliment or you simply could not see that compliment.
Personally, I didn't want to discuss Super Joe and his post, maybe he's just one of those people where his intentions were good but is not too great at articulating them, that's pretty much the way I saw it.
Mine and Deliena's posts were simply stating that it's nice to be somewhere where trolls and flamers do not exist, it didn't mean we were agreeing with Super Joes analysis of this site, in fact if anything the opposite is true.
I tried to understand Super Joes post as well, as aside from the would be troll there really isn't a problem here.
I'm not a moderator here, but I would actively discourage trolling should it appear, so the site would get visitors who think the same as I, i.e what a cool place, absolutely no bitchin going on, and I feel that's how this site enhances it's reputation.
There isn't a big brother style behaviour going on, I won't say to the next visitor, you're welcome but don't misbehave, I have no right whatsoever to comment on anyone's post in that fashion and I have never done so.
But having experienced and knowing what a troll does, if it becomes obvious that one exists, then I shall comment on their behaviour, but it's yours and the mods say that decides on whether that person is having a disruptive influence here.
And I would only wade in because I hate the blighters, but that person really needs to go to an extreme before I would stick my oar in, and that means making others lives a misery unecessarily...simply put, I have a thing about bullies and that's exactly what a troll is.
The mods here do a damn fine job, and one was very quick to see trouble coming and politely asked that person to refrain from behaving in a way that would atagonise, they did not heed the mods warning and as I particularly like the mod I felt it necessary to reinforce her views...again politely, that still made no difference.
It then became plainly obvious that they would not stop, so a more heavy handed approach was adopted by me and a few others.
Realise it or not, there is a sense of keeping it real (as Ali G would put it), and we all get along because we respect each other, and we respect each other's views, I like that in people and we have those people in abundance here, so if those people are attacked I make no apologies for treating the attacker with the contempt they deserve, these people are my friends and I don't wish to see them upset as I would any other friend.
I posted after Super Joe, not only to say why I liked the board, but also in the hope that the person who had caused a few people to be upset would understand why I felt I needed to have a go at them.
Whether they see that, remains to be seen, I hope they do.
So at the end of the day, you have a marvellous site that is well run, as well as a nice bunch of people who really get along, and I would just like to remain this way.
If I didn't feel this way, then I would not have mentioned the site to JJ, he came from the Lexx newsgroup from me mentioning it too him. I did that because JJ is a nice guy that really contributes in a friendly way, there were plenty of trolls there, and I think JJ was also happy to find somewhere he can post without someone having a go at him, and now he is a regular here.
If you want I can certainly go and get a few trolls to come here so you can see the flip side!!!
Anyhoo, your comments are fair and I am happy to end this discussion for my part on that note.
Squishy

quote:

God, I just *love* revisionist history.

Actually Aleck, I think you would be just as guilty as revising history as you seem to think I am - as evident by your own chronology of events elsewhere. If you were as open minded as you often presume to be, you might be aware that you're guilty of a tautology with your declared love: history is a form of re/vision. no doubt you would construe this as more philosophical babble on my behalf, but I encourage you to seek out the question of the problem of history within the historical sciences. And I only suggest this as a way of identifying the problem that I've always had with your own position/ing regarding any issue - you defend a concept of 'truth' by way of the very conception that disallows it (Truth). In this instance, you purport to be citing History as the agent or bearer of truth, and invariably objectify your own subjectivity via the province of your own historical access/experience. You thereby offer an objective account of your own subjectivity, rendering your own re/visions and renditions self refuting. You might as well be calling yourself God, and regard your own observations as god like. Rather than taking God's name in vain, you've just managed to underline the question of vanity (self love).

To cut a long story short, historian's call it hiSTORY for good reason, and find themselves struggling with the problem of history as inter/personal narrative. To paraphrase the title of this thread: giving all the pieces a chance to fit Not that I'd expect (or want) you to revise - let alone, interrogate - your own version of events, but for the historical record .. http://faculty.ed.uiuc.edu/burbul es/ncb/syllabi/Materials/N_and_epistemology.html

A philosophical translation of your most recent put down of me - read: another attempt to put me back in my (historical) place - would therefore be revised thus: God, I just love myself or myself as a just God.

Meanwhile

Split Enz - History Never Repeats

[chorus:]
History never repeats
I tell myself before I go to sleep
Don't say the words you might regret
I've lost before you know I can't forget

There was a girl I used to know
She dealt my love a savage blow
I was so young, too blind to see
But anyway that's history

I say [chorus]

You say I always played the fool
Well I can't go on, if that's the rule
Better to jump than hesitate
I need a change and I can't wait

[chorus2:]
History never repeats
I tell myself before I go to sleep
And there's a light shining in the dark
Leading me on towards a change of heart (ah-ar)

History never repeats, history never repeats

Deep in the night it's all so clear
I lie awake with great ideas
Lurking about in no-man's land
I think at last I understand

[chorus2]
Never repeats!...
Hey.... Hey....
Never repeats!

And I say, that's all
Remember til the next time

[all?:] thank you!

won't you stay, stay a while with my own one
one more day, one more day with my own ones
this old world, is so cold, don't care nothing for your soul
you share with your own ones...

Haul away, haul away, heave away, haul away, haul away, heave away

(Sorry Tony, but I'm not sure why Aleck felt the need to antagonise me, and just want it on record that it has cut both ways). Although, of course, he's no troll - just a valued member devaluing another one.

[ 22-03-2002: Message edited by: bonnee ]

Bonnee:

Yes, fair enough. You were messed around with some software hassles we were having when you first visited the board and that(and the hassles you were having from other posters) would have made your stay here very uncomfortable. From my standpoint (in the communications we had), your recollection is accurate.

Aleck:

Hehe, shame on you dude Though I don't think bonnee as frightened of having a go at you as say, me

Squishy:

Oki. I understand now.

Bonnee:

You are in a tough position. On one side you have peeps who think you are a troll! and on the other, it looks like some think you are taking things too seriously. I really think that's an unfair situation.

quote:Originally posted by bonnee:
(Sorry Tony, but I'm not sure why Aleck felt the need to antagonise me, and just want it on record that it has cut both ways). Although, of course, he's no troll - just a valued member devaluing another one.

I'm sorry, I don't think you understand what a troll is. A troll is someone who comes into a forum (or mailing list, or whatever) for the sole intent of provoking argument. You came onto the LEXX fora of the Sadboard first by claiming that S4 of LEXX was horrible, and that Farscape beat it, hands down. You may or may not be aware that LEXX boards have long fallen victim to malicious Farscape "fans" who do nothing but post antagonistic messages on LEXX boards, saying the same thing you'd said -- in other words, engaging in trollish behavior. You were "jumped on" by a small number of people here who, seeing some stranger posting for the sole purpose of putting the show down, believed you to be a troll. You later admitted that you were posting simply to provoke people and rile them up -- allegedly because you needed reminding why you liked LEXX to begin with. Of course, you did the same thing on *another* board, under an alias, thinking that no one would notice. Again -- actions designed purely for provocation and to foster argument rather than engender discussion or conversation. Again -- trollish behavior. After I called you on this, you decided to mock me in name, both on this board, and on the other board -- one that I don't even frequent regularly. Even after it's been made abundantly clear that I do not frequent the other board, you continue to do so. Again -- actions designed purely for antagonism. Again -- trollish behavior.

So forgive me if I don't buy your contention that you didn't know what you were getting into. And forgive me for using a term that you could twist around in useless philosophical babbling to mean anything. I should have just said that, to my eyes, you're lying your pants off. I apologize if I can't believe your statements to the effect of "I didn't know what I was stepping in until I stepped in it...even though I did the very same thing on another board after being reprimanded for it here, I didn't know what I was getting myself into...but, y'know, I had this article I was writing, and I needed to vent my spleen somewhere." I'm sorry if I don't think your pleas of mea culpa are sincere.

In fact, I don't think that there are enough stars in the sky to number how many ways of sorry I truly am.

--Aleck

quote:Originally posted by bonnee:
Unlike Jason, the *dude* has refused to traverse or negotiate that terrain. This has been nothing less than a nasty territorial dispute administed by various crossing guards violating the very principles they purport to be defending.

No, I just don't care to drag whatever petty arguments take place on this board onto other boards. Unlike some, who want to air their dirty laundry in as many places as possible.

--Aleck

quote:
You came onto the LEXX fora of the Sadboard first by claiming that S4 of LEXX was horrible, and that Farscape beat it, hands down.

By this stage, I was no stranger. My weekly lexx downunder thread predated it by some six to eight weeks. I don't recall you posting in either of these threads, so I'm not sure if you're one to comment. Your recollection of the Farscape thread indicates that you actually might be unfamiliar with it. That was NOT was discussed - rather, it was structured around the notion of a circle, and I was trying to navigate myself around it accordingly. Again you presume to describe my behaviour when all your doing is doing is describing your own response to it. Since the thread has been accidently lost, neither of us can profitably respond further to it.
quote:
After I called you on this, you decided to mock me in name, both on this board, and on the other board -- one that I don't even frequent regularly. Even after it's been made abundantly clear that I do not frequent the other board, you continue to do so. Again -- actions designed purely for antagonism. Again -- trollish behavior.

You're calling on this was a response to my own judgement call regarding bruttish and nasty behaviour in an otherwise good natured thread. I also apologised to you for our previous dispute in this thread, and you responded with a noble 'ditto' prior to the next outbreak. Despite the fact that we appeared to settle our differences here, the thread provided an oppurtunity for you to behave towards someone else in an incredibly ill tempered and custodial manner. By your own admission, your an [Alleged negative word] - as if the admission constitutes a moral pretext. When you continued to get personal, you decided to strategically unveil me as rip_lexx as a way of putting me in my place within another place. If you had been paying as close attention as you claim, you would have noted at least one of the moderators attempting to expand SG borders over there. He got his backside kicked good and proper by the moderator for behaviour that tends to get a pat on the back around here. You should have also noted that no one reacted to my behaviour over there as they did over here. Interestingly, it prompted a moderator to 'step down' and voice her own misgivings about season 4, where she claimed she no longer wanted to watch it. My so called attempt to prevent discussion actually generated it, and Jason has both privately and publicly engaged with the questions YOU raised to preclude the possibility of ANY discussion whatsover. As I indicated, however, I thought you were Jason over there and were willing to try again. Sorry my mistake. Hence the smart Aleck designation and signature concerning the 'custodian of truth' when I objected to your appalling behaviour and your subsequent attempt to put me in my place again.

And clearly you don't frequent Lexx.com - because I stopped doing it when Flamegrape asked me to a long time ago.

If we need any proof of your need to willfully obscure what has been going on across the boards, consider the lily.

Lily posted her own reservations about Season 4 and indicated that she no longer intended to watch it for the reasons cited. She was worried about encountering the kind of response my posts tended to engender. I offered her support and apologised for the behaviour of a select few, including my own. That was your cue to put me in my place again by claiming that at least her post was reasoned . Flamegrape intervened by saying that you fell into my trap again by claiming that Lily was obviously Bonnee because of textual support indicating as such, and cited the one and same reasons as evidence for the different identity. So, on the one hand, Lily gets defended by you because of the reasons cited. On the other hand, Flamegrape urges that you've misheard Lily because it was obviously me - the reason being: she was speaking in my own 'voice', as evident by the reasons cited. In other words, the one and same post was actively misread by two different people, where it was supposed to simultaneously point away from - and back towards - me. Either way YOU look at it, there must have been something other than trollish about Lily's post that encouraged such inconsistent and disparate readings. Talk about mis/identiying something according to your own identity. A perfect example would be my own experience of you (and others) behaving as if you were Gandalf speaking to Balrog - who might profitably be identified as the biggest troll of all. Gandalf sceaming "You Shall Not Pass!" , however, may be construed as ingenuous. The fellowship of the Ring were trespassing on his territority. Within the context of a Lexx forum of a self annointed fellowship enacting and policing a border, you have to wonder who have really been the trolls here.

You've cited more than once that the evidence regarding my own behaviour points in a particular direction. You fail to note, however, that what is regarded as evidence can point us in many different directions. That is why philosophers have something called the problem of knowledge in so far as evidence can re/direct us in many different ways. You purport to be able to resolve this problem by way of making everything point back to you - ie, via the route of your own beliefs and desires. There is actually a sign for this route and it is marked Idios. The derivation of this term perfectly captures your own avowed philosiophical position and has crossed over into everyday discourse. Namely, idios means 'pertaining to one's self, one's own, belonging to one's self, seeking one's own counsel', etc. Whilst you readilly call me a liar, the evidence calls out for the *fact* that your an idiot by any other name.

quote:

So forgive me ...

I forgive you Aleck... Again

[ 23-03-2002: Message edited by: bonnee ]

A Word was replaced by "[Alleged negative word] ". It was borderline, but theoretically it broke the rules. {We're on very dodgy ground here guys, so give me a break will ya!}

[ 23-03-2002: Message edited by: SadGeezer ]

Sorry Bonnee, but you are not fooling anyone, perhaps with the exception of Saddy, but it's a difficult ship for him to steer.
I would say to you and Tony, having been part of the newsgroups that football fans frequent in this country, that I have good experience of Troll behaviour, you get the ones that will simply blurt out 'tosser' and the ones that are very clever.
The ones that are clever are the most dangerous, as they will usually pretend to be Mr Nice Guy so they can win support, while at the same time atagonising others, so much so that it turns out to be a long thread of people just turning on each other, I've even seen death threats mentioned, and the Troll is lost in there somewhere jsut occasionally turning up to stir it up a bit more.
Trolls get their kicks from this, and show off their prowess at causing this huge arguments to their friends, usually feeling some sense of acheivement.
The Troll that can outmanuever an opponent using wit and intellectual script is a particularly difficult one to get rid of, and that's what your behaviour smacks of.
If you have any doubt whether this is true, then I suggest you visit these newsgroups, a: because you will be in your element, and b: because there are plenty of people you can wind up.
It's a shame that people's enjoyment of the net have to be marred by these characters.
I have yet to see any indication to the contrary that you are anything but, whilst you may maintain it is not your intention, all the evidence of your behaviour points to the that.
I have never in my time on this board policed, harrassed or questioned anyone that has posted, but I know trollish behaviour when I see it, and I have said before, I don't like it, it's cruel, nasty and uneccessary and I don't like to see people subjected to it. It's not a case of simply not liking you, as everyone has the ability to avoid such behaviour, it's the ones that have been given the opportunity to cease that behaviour and do not, those are the ones that make it apparent as to what there to objective is...to antagonise others.
Trolls know they can do a lot more damage by using words than they ever could inflicting physical injury, and they know they can get away with it, because they are faceless.
So, I would say to anyone reading this post to take note of your behaviour Bonnee, and compare to a Trolls, as to me there is no doubt that it is exactly the same.
Believe me, Bonnee, one day you will feel ashamed for your treatment of others, it will hit one day just how much of an ass you've been.
I don't care whether you write bleeding heart posts or e-mails to Tony, you are a Troll in my eyes and you are the only one that can change your reputation.
For while you remain here and post bile and atagonising posts, I will always make sure that everyone is reminded of just what you are.
If that get's me kicked off the board, then so be it, my conscious will be clear.
Squishy

Squishy, there's no need to respond.

All it's doing is giving him a reason to hang around (after declaring that he's leaving...what is it, about 5 times now?). It's just providing more and more reason for hi